MRF
member
Reged: 17/05/2008
Posts: 5
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Hello
Hope you can help me please.
I am wanting to get into shooting. My grandparents have a farm and i have had a .22 air rifle since i was young. I am now wanting to upgrade to a sporting rifle say a .222 or .223 (are these okay?) it will mainly be used for foxes and rabbits.
I will need to get a firearms licence. - how difficult are these to get? I was in the armed forces 5 years ago, not sure if this goes against or for me. I am not mentally ill or taking medication.
Not sure if i have a good enough reason for getting a rifle, they may say i should stay with the air rifle?
I would also like to join a rifle club in Huddersfield area.
What would be the best rifle to start out with (make model etc)? Also what calibre? a .222, .223, .243?
How much ammunition am i allowed to hold at one time?
I guess i will need a gun cabinet and store ammunition separately? Can this be kept at home?
I guess police will need to come to my house to check me out? ask questions etc.
I have a budget of approx £500.
Look forward to your comments.
Cheers
Matt
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CptCarling
member
Reged: 21/10/2007
Posts: 102
Loc: Isle of Wight
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Matt, I woould sugest that if you apply, you ask for a .22 for rabbits, as asking for a .223 for them is going to be turned down flat.
a .243 for foxes will also get turned down on this basis, so apply for either a .223 or 22-250. Both are excelent for foxes, although I would say dont buy a used 22-250.
As for storage, this can indeed be kept at home and the all-in-on cabinets with a lockable inner section will be fine.
It also depends on how big the farm is, you wont get anything on an allotment in Peckham for instance! Although they are not supposed to take this into account, most police forces do.
As for how many rounds to keep, I would apply for the following:
.22 - Keep 600 buy 500
.223 - Keep 60 buy 50
Obviously if your wanting to join a rifle club, you could up these figures to suit, but dont go overboard.
The most important things (as you will read in many posts on here) is not only join the BASC but also ASK your local Firearms Dept for advice, you will find that forming good relations with them is a valuable exercise.
Also worth thinking about applying for your shotgun licence at the same time.
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sandersj89
stranger
Reged: 26/01/2007
Posts: 148
Loc: Sussex or Devon
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As Captain says plus I would also look at .17HMR. Some forces are happy for these on both vermin and rabbit.
For a rabbit gun they are fantatstic, head shots out to 200m if you are up for it. Means that you can also eat the rabbit after if you so wish as hitting a rabbit with a .223 can make a bit of a mess.
.17HMR for fox is fine for close range fox, I use mine out to about 80m. The beauty of the HMR, much like the .223 is it's inherant accuracy.
You can see my set up over on the shootingcommunity website.
As for make, if you go down the .22 or HMR route then look at the CZ range of rifles, rifle under £300, a £100 scope, £30 SAK mod and a £60 harris bipod and you are good to go.
Good luck
Jerry
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MRF
member
Reged: 17/05/2008
Posts: 5
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Thank you for your replies guys.
I think i will look into a .223. I have heard good stories about Remmington 700?
The farm is about 80 acres.
The only reason i mentioned .243 is in case i take up deer stalking in future (e.g. i didnt want to buy a smaller calibre rifle and have to upgrade in a years time).
But i guess .243 will get turned down.
Can you get an open licence to shoot anywhere or is it fixed to a specific location if you are a newcomer so to speak?
Thanks for your help.
Matt
p.s. can anyone recommend a good gun shop in and around Huddersfield area?
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sandersj89
stranger
Reged: 26/01/2007
Posts: 148
Loc: Sussex or Devon
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Quote:
Thank you for your replies guys.
I think i will look into a .223. I have heard good stories about Remmington 700?
Remington is good, have a look at Howa too, very good value for money and good reports about them
Quote:
The farm is about 80 acres.
The only reason i mentioned .243 is in case i take up deer stalking in future (e.g. i didnt want to buy a smaller calibre rifle and have to upgrade in a years time).
You will get 243 for fox, I have on mine, but will struggle to get vermin on it too. I am trying with the support of BASC but it is not easy.
Quote:
Can you get an open licence to shoot anywhere or is it fixed to a specific location if you are a newcomer so to speak?
Your FAC will be closed to start with, normally that is the case for 5 years but you can get it opened up earlier in some cases. All land you shoot will have to be cleared by the firearms people for the calibre you are using.
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MRF
member
Reged: 17/05/2008
Posts: 5
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Thanks Sanders you have been really helpful. Will try for a .243
I guess i just go to my local police station to get a form to fill in.
To give you an idea of size of the farm i have found a satellite map see here: 
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CptCarling
member
Reged: 21/10/2007
Posts: 102
Loc: Isle of Wight
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Looking at the picture, I think you may be in for a rough ride with anything other than a .22 Main roads, houses etc. It would pay to find out what the ground is claeard for before you send £50 off.
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sandersj89
stranger
Reged: 26/01/2007
Posts: 148
Loc: Sussex or Devon
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Looks fairly flat too, but it is hard to tell.
If it has not been cleared for anything, which is possible, ask for the FEO to do a land inspection with you along at the same time.
Do your home work before hand and identify safe firing angles and back stops, even suggest possible sites for a few high seats to increase the safety.
If the FEO feels you are taking safety seriously he may entertain more than a .22LR.
Jerry
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MRF
member
Reged: 17/05/2008
Posts: 5
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Guys, thanks for your replies you have been really helpful.
It's difficult knowing where to start trying to get into the sport of shooting, i feel it would be a really good hobby and i'm at that stage in life when i can afford to do it now (e.g. cost of equipment, maintenance, cartridges etc).
I'm also interested in getting my dad involved, something we can do together, we didnt really spend much time together when i was younger but we just didnt like the same things.
I guess i could get the land cleared at the farm for a shotgun and i suppose i could get the shotgun licence when applying for section 1 firearms licence?
A friend at work has just recently bought a Beretta 410 shotgun for clays.
I am interested in foxing, rabbiting and possibly (eventually) deer stalking but the trouble seems to be that you need land to get the licence, and you need a fair large chunk of land in the middle of nowhere to be able to get a decent calibre e.g .243
I seem to be struggling to break into the sport and i'm not really sure where to start. My worst fear is that i buy a .22 rifle only to get hooked on the sport, look for larger areas and in a years time wish i had got a larger rifle and hence more cost.
How do people go on when deer stalking, being tied to the same piece of land all of the time? and they have to get that land cleared? (someone elses land i guess).
Sorry to be a nuisance but i could just do with a bit of guidance on what and where you think i should go next with this. Do you know any places i could go to use a .243 rifle? I guess just being a member of a rifle club doesnt have "good reason" to own a rifle?
Sorry to be a pain, just wondering where to start out and how.
Cheers,
Matt
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sandersj89
stranger
Reged: 26/01/2007
Posts: 148
Loc: Sussex or Devon
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For good reason for a 243 all you need is the desire to go stalking and a "booking" with a stalker to back that up.
That will be looked upon as "good reason", though I would suggest going .22LR first and then move up calibres over time.
This link might be of interest:
http://www.shootingcommunity.co.uk/pages/CentreFireRifleGuide.pdf
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Norfolkpoacher
member
Reged: 29/05/2008
Posts: 1
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Hi,
I agree with the posts already left but in addition, I would suggest you approach your local fire arms officer. The land will need to be surveyed by the officer to see if its eligible for fire-arms. This can normally be done over a couple of hours, it is very much down to the officer to advise if the land is suitable.ie he/she will look for roads, paths, bridleways,housing, public etc, look yourself as he/she will ask you questions on your possible shoot.Its not a trick, they need to know how observant you are!! If so, he/she may well advise on the calibre for pest/vermin on that land.You may get refused!!
For short range (rabbits, rats, corvids)I use a CZ452 silohette .22LR but I compliment this with a CZ american .17HMR. The later is a terrific rifle and as the other member has stated, rabbits can be killed at 200-250mtrs, the round is an expanding round and will do a lot of damage to the body, so head shots are important if you want rabbits to eat.Because of the velocity of the round a resounding crack will be heard, although not a problem in the middle of a moor or heath, it may well cause problems if housing is nearby. This rifle will kill foxes, (I have killed a fox with the .22LR but at very close range (40mtrs)(40grain shell) but not advised), I shot a fox in the chest with the .17HMR at 110mtrs,(20grain shell) it entered the chest and then removed the right lung and rib cage.
However, I have a .223 and a .22250 both Remington, both are very effective at killing foxes and Muntjac and Chinese Water Deer.
If you want to go deer stalking, you will need to obtain an NVQ at an approved centre, it is said that you will not obtain a .240 or higher until this is obtained. I have been shooting for 47years and have never needed this but all things change and I have booked myself on the course.
I would suggest you visit BASC web site for calibre info.
It is also important that you state what you are controlling and what you want to control because if its not on the cert then I strongly advise that you do not shoot/kill other species.
A variation to a cert costs £26, so plan and think what you need. In many areas, the fire arms officer will maybe allow one rifle until he/she is satisfied that you are capable of using a rifle.
If you get a cert, you will need a cabinet to BS and a ammo cabinet, however, my officer allowed me to use a small safe from a well known high street outlet.
If shooting large deer, you need a calibre greater than .240 and yes a .243 is popular.I did get a .243 for controlling foxes at long range but this is unusual and not always possible.
As a tip most rifles need a moderator (silencer), this item is a separate item and you need to state this on your cert, if you don't ask, you won't get.
If you are sucessful, I hope you are remember Health and Safety of yourself and others, many farmers a I shoot for now require a shooting procedure(plan) and a risk assessment. But do not let it deter or spoil your shooting.
I don't know it all, or profess to but I have several years experience, at gamekeeping, farm management and pest control, so ask and I will try to help.
Best Rgds Norfolkpoacher
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CptCarling
member
Reged: 21/10/2007
Posts: 102
Loc: Isle of Wight
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Quote:
If you want to go deer stalking, you will need to obtain an NVQ at an approved centre, it is said that you will not obtain a .240 or higher until this is obtained.
This is not strictly true, as the BASC will confirm. This tactic is being used by many police forces to refuse applications for .240 or bigger.
There is no requirement in law to hold an NVQ in order to go deer stalking or hold a .240 or bigger.
It is advisable to do the DSC1 if you have little or no experience, but it's not a requirement.
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MRF
member
Reged: 17/05/2008
Posts: 5
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Guys, thank you very much for your replies, you have been really helpful and it's very much appreciated.
I've now found out a little more about the land i was wanting to shoot on. It turns out my Uncle's friend got a licence to shoot on this land a couple of years ago but the Firearms Officer would only entertain a .22 rimfire. (I was kind of hoping for a full bore at least .223 for foxing).
Well i've taken the next step and booked in to go to local rifle club on Monday night. After the 3 mnonth probationary period i can then apply for my FAC. Just one question though, the club have both a .22 rimfire range and a large outdoor full bore range. If i try the full bore and like it would it stop me from getting a full bore 223 on my FAC? Is just being the member of a rifle club and using the full bore range a good enough reason? or do i need land to shoot on too?
Thanks again for your help.
p.s. is there anything to stop me being a member at 2 rifle clubs?
p.p.s. someone mentioned to get my shotgun licence at the same time but i wouldnt be able to buy a shotgun and a rifle? can you still apply for a shotgun licence even if you dont own a shotgun?
Cheers
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CptCarling
member
Reged: 21/10/2007
Posts: 102
Loc: Isle of Wight
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Not sure about rifle clubs, they all seem to move in very strange ways, with some members having never set foot in a field and even some Anti-Bloodsport members!
as for the Shotgun certificate, I would apply for one. You dont have to own a shotgun, but it's a usefull thing to hold.
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belmontcj
member
Reged: 27/11/2007
Posts: 38
Loc: Aberdeenshire
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Hi MRF, I have just come back to the sight after a few months and have read with interest your post.
It is always interesting to see the variation in local approaches to firearms licensing and to hear others opinion.
That said the best advice I have seen in your thread is from Norfolk poacher advising you to contact your enquiry officer directly. What applies in Aberdeenshire will not necessarily be true in Huddersfield.
I find it fascinating that many of you seem to be faced with such heavy handed controls over the approval of calibres for specific use. I too have heard of forces insisting upon various deer qualifications to hold heavier calibres but there is currently no legislation to support these requirements. Undoubtedly the courses will benefit the shooter but I am certain that if pushed the Police would find it a difficult condition to enforce.
The Norfolk Poacher has already recommended the rifles from CZ that I use and would recommend to all. The HMR is a fantastic round but is very susceptible to wind drift due to the small size of the head. The other option for Foxes, if full bore is not available, is a tightly choked shotgun with a heavy shell. Obviously a much closer range solution but effective none the less.
With regard to your rifle club questions there are no restrictions on the number of clubs you can join. It is worth remembering that membership fees will need to be paid. Our range is £120 a year for a 50m NDA and 100m SDA range.
As previously indicated in the thread you should apply for several calibres during your application to avoid the £26 variation cost later. Initially i applied for 2 x .22, a .38 under lever, a .243 and a .303. Since then i have only needed one variation.
Please also be aware that in addition to the rifle and moderator you will need to add expanding ammunition if you intend to shoot live quarry. Locally Police will grant 600 possess and 500 purchase PER .22 owned and 200/150 full bore although these will be increased with proof of high usage.
Again be warned that a good rifle club can be a little like a sweet shop window. From Long barrel pistols, black powder, rimfire, full bore and all of the other variations of firearms it is VERY easy to become hooked on a discipline that you had previously never encountered. I own a lovely under lever Marlin .38 having fallen victim to exactly this syndrome!!! Members are generally delighted to offer the chance to try their firearms and this is one of the beauties of club membership.
Once approved as a full member of your chosen club this is certainly sufficient reason to apply for a calibre approved for use by the club. Please remember that this does not give you authority to use the firearm out with the club however as the usage will be very deliberatly stated on your certificate.
Your last comment is slightly confusing with regard to a shotgun license. You cannot posses a shotgun WITHOUT a certificate and there is certainly nothing preventing you from owning both Section one firearms AND shotguns. What does make sense if you plan to own both is to apply for a coterminous certificate negating the need for 2 renewals as they will expire at the same time and save you 50 or 60 quid.
I hope this ramble proves some help to you and wish you well in your shooting career,
Belmont
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