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  1. #1
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    25-06 v. 260 remmington

    Evening. Looking at users of both for fox and deer. Any pros or cons to either? Any thoughts welcome.

    Rob

  2. #2
    Veteran neutron619's Avatar
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    I suppose I'll have to respond with a couple of questions of my own:
    .
    • Are you a professional stalker with a cull plan to execute in limited time?
    • Do you plan to reload?
    • If not, have you identified a source of ammunition for the latter calibre?

    .
    Exactly what my answers would comprise depends on your answers to the above questions, but my thoughts, in no particular order would be:

    • .25 calibre bullets will kill deer. So for that matter will .17 calibre bullets or ping-pong balls if you put them in the right place at sufficient speed. However, that's not the same as saying they're a good choice for killing deer. You'd be better off looking at a 7mm+ cartridge - and preferably a .30 or one of the old .45 calibre rifle cartridges - for killing large deer. Remember that if you can show good reason, the police cannot interfere with your choice of calibre - no matter how much they imagine a .243 is perfectly safe and a .338 Lapua is the devil incarnated as a firearm.
    • Anything that will kill a deer will be suitable for fox. Ergo, buy a "deer" gun and don't try to get a "cross-over" calibre that is capable but that much more marginal for deer. Your force should put AOLQ on any deer rifle (to cover fox) if you ask for it on the application (and if they don't, report them to BASC, which occasionally has the desired effect).
    • Ballistically, there's nothing much between the two cartridges, but .25-06 is probably more common on gun shops. If you aren't going to reload, get the .25-06. If you are, it doesn't matter.
    • If you are a newly qualified deer manager who needs a rifle to take 500-yard head shots at deer - something I certainly wouldn't attempt myself - then I can see the argument for going down the ultra-fast, ultra-flat trajectory route. I accept that it's in the foxs' / deers' interests that you should have the easiest possible time in culling them. If that's the case, forget them both and buy a Weatherby Mark V chambered in .257 Weatherby, which will do as well as anything. If you aren't - well - your ranges will generally be 200 yards or less, in which case any medium-large calibre will do, provided bullet weight and construction are appropriate, hence my advice to err on the larger side. Bigger holes = more blood loss = usually fewer night-time wanderings around the woods trying to find the wounded Fallow.


    More thoughts may occur. If you can give an indication of the ratio of deer to foxes you think you might shoot, that might change some of the answers a little. In the meantime, I suggest you might look at the .30-30 Winchester, .308 Winchester or .30-06 Springfield if you plan to use factory ammo, or add to that the 7mm-08, .45-70 Government, 8mm Mauser or .35 Remington if you plan to reload.
    .
    If you absolutely have to use a .25 calibre rifle, the .257 Roberts is the epitome of class - no calibre monkey worth their salt would dare insult such a useful and venerable cartridge - and will push the same bullets as the .25-06/.260 at slightly more sensible velocities, at lesser cost to your shoulder, bank balance and supply of venison.
    .
    Obviously all that is just my personal preferences on the basis of limited experience, of course, but the deer will be less like soup inside if you can get away with a slightly slower calibre and slightly heavier bullet.
    .
    Good luck
    Freedom is having the right to offend and be offended; politeness is temporarily eschewing that right in respect of others; maturity is understanding the compromise and applying it.

  3. #3
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    Have you seen what deer do to my crops? I've plumbed for the above 2 as I've been informed (rightly or wrongly) they are f as it'll soft to shoot. I currently use a friendly 270 Winchester m70 sporter that's......nit too shoulder friendly, to say the least. I would like to use it on Fox as much as deer as I want my money's worth out the rifle. I'm looking at a sako 85 varmint stainless in eithercsliber. Home loads.

  4. #4
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    Let me see, .007 of an inch difference in diameter, about two thicknesses of typing paper and not much difference in bullet weight or external ballistics, when using factory ammo. Neither deer nor fox will be able to tell you which they were shot with...
    .
    So the question is this: Do you want a long or short action?

  5. #5
    Veteran neutron619's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fforest View Post
    Have you seen what deer do to my crops? I've plumbed for the above 2 as I've been informed (rightly or wrongly) they are f as it'll soft to shoot. I currently use a friendly 270 Winchester m70 sporter that's......nit too shoulder friendly, to say the least. I would like to use it on Fox as much as deer as I want my money's worth out the rifle. I'm looking at a sako 85 varmint stainless in eithercsliber. Home loads.
    The .270 does have something of a blast on it by all accounts, but then again, it's a somewhat over-bored cartridge which usually employs a relatively light bullet (for the case capacity) with relatively massive amount of slow-ish powder behind it, so it's not surprising that you get a bit of boom. There's usually powder still burning outside of the gun. I used to get much the same using H335 in an unmoderated .308, which scared a few RCOs but was essentially harmless. Nice fireball though.
    .
    Returning to the topic at hand, yes, those two rifles should produce less recoil, using, as they do, lighter bullets at simillar velocities to the .270, but remember that the .25-06 is the same necked-down case as the .270 - you'd be moving from somewhat "over bored" to "even more over bored" which may not (I can't say for sure) help with the muzzle blast / recoil. As I said above, I personally wouldn't shoot one unless there was literally no alternative. Other folk wouldn't shoot anything else - take your pick.
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    One question worth asking at this point is, do you plan to use a moderator? It'll certainly help on whatever you buy, but remember that even the big .30's, unmoderated, produce only about as much recoil as a medium 12-gauge shotgun load, so although you need to be careful of eyes and scopes connecting with each other, the kick any given calibre gives is often over-hyped by people wanting to willy-wave about how big a gun they can handle. Stick a moderator on the front of any of them and they're all pussies, frankly.
    .
    At this point, if I can't convince you of the merits of a larger, slower calibre - the .270 is a bit of a beast, to be fair, but the rest of the common chamberings are all manageable enough - then let me repeat the value of the .257 Roberts. Factory ammo is available and it's a lot less like a grumpy wife than your average .25-06 - soft, smooth, moderate, capable, colossally underrated. Rather like a decent 28 bore if you wing-shoot, in fact.
    Freedom is having the right to offend and be offended; politeness is temporarily eschewing that right in respect of others; maturity is understanding the compromise and applying it.

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