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Thread: Why is it ?

  1. #1
    Veteran ROBERT6500's Avatar
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    Why is it ?

    This is a post that has been set up for a bit of a debate so do please feel free to comment but keep it polite and have respect for others

    Over the years i've been noticing people go/come shooting with what can only be classed really as being "over gunned".
    There are many, many shooters out there these days that have spent a serious amount and even insane amounts of money on a new gun, yet they can't actually hit a barn door from the inside yet
    These days a lot of guns come with gadgets and gizmo's (high ribs, adjustable ribs, adjustable stocks, extra long chokes, back boring etc, etc.) that are suppose to help you shoot, yet unless you shoot trap they don't often make much if any difference to your shooting in the early years but they cost a damned fortune.
    What is it do you suppose that drives shooters to do such a thing ? Many have taken up huge finance deals to pay for these guns that they struggle to keep up. In some cases they even have to shoot so little as they can't actually afford to shoot the gun while paying for it.
    Anyone who knows anything about shooting will tell you that its not the gun but the guy/girl behind the thing.
    Even the oldest and often beat up guns shoot very well and accurately if the muzzles are put in the right place when the trigger is pulled, so why waste all that money on a gun that is NEVER actually worth the money that's paid for them in the first place.
    There are thousands of beautifully made older guns that are in stunning condition and will outlast much of this new stuff on the market today yet cost well under 2,000 and even 1,000, so what makes people do you think want to buy something over priced
    I've been lucky enough to be able to shoot most of the shotguns out there today and some are very nice to look at but handle like a pig and some look awful but are a dream to shoot, yet are a mixture of the two in price, expensive rubbish and cheap excellence.
    If you have bought a new gun in say......the last ten years, what was it you bought and what made you buy it ? If it has gadgets of any description why did you buy it with it and has it made a difference to your shooting personally ? Anyone ever wished they hadn't bought a gun that cost too much really ?
    I know several guys that buy a different gun every month as they think it will improve their shooting but it very rarely does because firstly the gun doesn't fit but more importantly the shooter doesn't understand even the basics of shotgun shooting and target reading.
    It really pains me to see these generally very nice guys waste so much money and yet won't invest on some good coaching to understand what they need to know and do and not what the gun needs to do as even the most basic of guns will look after itself out there on the range or field.
    Last edited by ROBERT6500; 04-Sep-2017 at 11:51 AM.
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  2. #2
    Veteran neutron619's Avatar
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    Simples. They value looks over function and pay the price - over and over and over as you imply.
    .
    I'm not saying I can shoot, but give me my Baikals or my Yildiz guns any day. They're cheap as chips, but they still put food on the table and entertain me to the Nth degree.
    .
    I guess I have a lot of guns but I do about as well with any of them. Usually between 1 for 2 and 1 for 4, depending on how excitable I am. I still sometimes shoot at a bird and then remember that it was flying too fast, too far away for me to have any chance of hitting it!
    .
    I seem to mostly reload / test cartridges these days, so I'm a bit out of practice bird shooting currently, but the technical side is still part of shooting and still a fun hobby (if you're me). I guess what I'm saying is I've got lots, but they're really just different sized tubes for testing ammo. I mostly shoot my 28ga when I go after birds at the moment.
    .
    Based on what you said, I do wonder if I'd have spent just over a grand on my Maxus if I had the chance of buying it again now. Nice to have a brand new gun for a first gun, but it hardly comes out any more and I've never spent anything close to that sort of money on a gun since. My last two were my new garden gun and a 20 gauge Accacio single (which, for what it's worth, patterns Gamebore's "Regal Game" 24g/#6 cartridge beautifully). The price was 60 for both.
    Last edited by neutron619; 31-Aug-2017 at 11:48 AM.
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  3. #3
    Young Shot
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    ROBERT6500:
    .
    I'm going to answer this from an American perspective. Please keep in mind that firearms are generally, less costly here, easier to obtain, and a greater variety is available.
    .
    First off we have a lot of people who have more dollars than sense, they've got to have the newest thing out there, or at least to have bought it new. Not the latest means obsolete, and old means well, old, and everyone one knows new is better than old, right? WRONG!!!!
    .
    People buy gizmos and gadgets looking for that extra edge. Sometimes they help, if only mentally.
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    Your comment on the shooter being the most important component is quite true. I remember one of my clubs Bullseye pistol shooters explaining, almost 40 years ago, instead of spending $300 on a pistol and then sending it to a pistolsmith and spending another $600 to $1000 having the gun "tuned". You were better off buying the company's "match pistol" for $500 and spending the rest on ammunition.
    .
    As to why people don't spend money on instruction and instead go out and buy gun after gun is ego. They can not admit to themselves or others, that the problem just might be them and not the gun.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by ROBERT6500 View Post
    There are many, many shooters out there these days that have spent a serious amount and even insane amounts of money on a new gun, yet they can't actually hit a barn door from the inside yet
    I don't like the way this argument is going, Rob. If I follow it to its logical conclusion I'll end up buying a non-ejector AYA side-by-side from the 1980s, rather than the Blaser F16 with the grade 4 wood that I think - no, that I'm absolutely sure I need!
    .
    But more seriously, this is a widespread issue that is far from unique to guns. The same goes for any hobby. Take motorcycles, for example. Modern sportsbikes are far, far faster than 95% of the people who ride them. Most people would run out of talent long before the bike ran out of performance, and I would be running out of talent more quickly than most. And yet people spend significant amounts of money on the latest, sweetest machinery. Same goes for cars. These days, even a hot hatch has more performance than most people could put to good use, on or off a track, and that's before we even consider increasingly strict policing of speed limits.
    .
    As others have mentioned, ownership of toys is mostly about the looks and the pride of ownership. It's human nature. For most people, pursuing a hobby is not really about extracting every last bit of performance out of oneself. It's about wasting time enjoyably in the company of similarly minded people with similar toys. That's one of the privileges of life in a developed country, I guess.

  5. #5
    Veteran ROBERT6500's Avatar
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    Nice answers guys.
    Anyone else ? I know you are dieing to say something, so say it.
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    Top Gun Mike George's Avatar
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    I often tell my wife that, if I won millions on the Lottery, first stop would be Maranello for a Ferrari, then Boss of London for one of their superb O/Us, then to the Harley Davidson importer for a bike. If it ever came to reality, I'd probably settle for a Merc saloon, acknowledge that I'm too old for the Harley, and take my beloved Winchester 6500 to a stocker to have some really smart bespoke woodwork fitted. But it's nice to dream, isn't it?
    Last edited by Mike George; 02-Sep-2017 at 09:26 AM.
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    Well you have asked! As I have just purchased my first gun Browning B525 sporter 30 inch 12g, here are my reasons, this forum had some influence! I read various posts looked on you tube at reviews of guns went to local gun shops and asked them and lastly tried different guns at the club I belong to, I've said in previous posts one of the first guns I tried was the instructors Browning and I did take to it straight away unlike the Beretta silver pigeon?
    Cost did come into it I wanted something that would perhaps take me from raw beginner to reasonable shot so that's why I went for perhaps the more expensive gun, I also decided to go for new rather than pre owned as in the dealers there wast much in the price difference, the warranty helped in this choice as well.
    So unlike certain shooting coaches I didn't have a limitless budget! Just kidding!!
    I didn't buy any gadgets only "normal" accessories ie ear defenders gloves, cleaning products.
    Iam not thinking about another gun purchase at the moment just getting used to the one I have, although saw a very nice Miroku mk38 grade 5 which was very pretty!
    Regards chris

  8. #8
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    I'm with Adam.Cheap,cheerful and puts lead where you point it.
    I have various guns with different stock lengths (there is a reason behind this)
    Longer stocks for summer (lol)
    shorter stocks for winter (more layers of clothing)
    But the 1 gun that I can shoot all year round and get very decent results is..............
    .
    A Baikal dt ou which cost me the Princely sum of nothing.(cheers Eddie)
    It could do with a new hinge pin although it's tight when closed.
    Never had a missfire and if I wanted to I could use it to bash fence posts into the ground

  9. #9
    Young Shot
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    I don't know how much anyone has followed my limited postings, but to reiterate briefly, I am a 61 year old living in the middle of the USA, Oklahoma to be precise. My late father grew up on a farm in the state of Kansas during the Depression Era. Dad grew up hunting and fishing and enjoyed dreaming about the guns that were available back then, but economically unobtainable, dad also severed in the US Army, Pacific, in WWII. After the war dad married and they had 3 sons, of which I'm the youngest. Dad taught all three of us how to fish, shoot, and hunt from a very early age and it took on all three of us.
    .
    All told I have 80+ guns, the majority are handguns and rifles, with shotguns numbering around a dozen, many are guns I inherited from my father. The interest that guns hold are multifold, the craftsmanship involved in their making has always been a reason for getting them in that the well made gun is much like a sculpture, and good art costs. Historical interest, I have a number of weapons from the Second World War, and a few replicas of guns from an earlier age. The mechanical design of the guns, all guns do the same thing, fire a projectile, but the means by which the do this are quite varied. We have single shots with a number of different action designs for them. Break actions and who doesn't get into conversations over the box lock and side lock? Bolt action, Lee-Enfield vs K-98, or the Winchester Model 70 against Remington's Model 700, Pump (trombone) action, both in rifles and shotguns. Lever action rifles there are a multitude of variations on them alone. The semiautomatic is a system that has had and will have volumes written on them, but simply we have a "method" that is found in all three classes of firearms, rifle, pistol, and shotgun. But in that genre you find blow-back, recoil operated, and of course gas operated. So my brothers and I are much like our father in that we see it as: "Why gave one gun or method of operation, when we can have (almost) all of them.
    .
    And as with a woman and her dress, you have to have the accessories to go along with it/them.

  10. #10
    Veteran ROBERT6500's Avatar
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    Again more great answers guys.
    For me with over 54 years of shooting experience now, I'm seriously happy with my two favourite guns, which are my main gun a Beretta s686s 30" fixed choke 1/4 + 3/8 with an adjustable stock. And my baby a Winchester 6500mk2 with the lighter barrels in 28" multi chokes (extended teagues as well as winchokes) and stunning exhibition wood that has tiger stripes in the stock and forend. I like to take her out on a few dry game shoots and a couple of times a year on a clay shoot.
    I have shot almost every gun out there today, especially all the new stuff and generally can shoot them all well or very well. However I still come back to my two guns which are both well over 30 years old and have never failed me. I always shoot at my best and enjoy my shooting whether clay, fur or feather using these two guns. Both guns combined cost me just 1,400 and are absolutely in mint condition.
    I have more coaching guns of various gauges though and a couple of semi auto's as well that I play with and do a bit of duck shooting.
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