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  1. #1
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    Mumbai type attack

    So our 'leaders' have decided that sections of our armed police need training by the SAS to combat a perceived Mumbai attack in this country.
    Hopefull y there are no ulterior motives involved here,because a Mumbai attack couln't happen here as fully automatic assault rifles have never been legal here,semi auto rifles were banned after Hungerford and handguns were effectively banned following Dunblane,so it couldn't possibly happen here.
    Unless of course,our authorities are making out that gun control doesn't work.

  2. #2
    Veteran neutron619's Avatar
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    Re: Mumbai type attack

    Interesting point. I'm sure they also wont be admitting that a large number of the firearms used and held illegally in this country are smuggled in from the recent warzones in eastern Europe (Bosnia, Herzgovinia, Kosovo etc), a business which I dare say isn't at all hindered by Europe's free movement of goods laws and lax internal security checks...
    Freedom is having the right to offend and be offended; politeness is temporarily eschewing that right in respect of others; maturity is understanding the compromise and applying it.

  3. #3

    Re: Mumbai type attack

    Careful lads. If you make a lot of noise about how 'gun control isn't working', d'you think that will eventually make the pursuit of our interests easier, or more difficult?

    To me it seems absolutely clear, following the Mark Saunders case, that Police marksmen need a LOT more training in both marksmanship (how many shots missed Mark Saunders??) and dealing with pressure. If the special forces can help them with that and PREVENT another such killing from taking place, it can only be good.

  4. #4
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    Re: Mumbai type attack

    Not just Mark Saunders, either: decent training would have clearly benefitted the police in both the Cumbria and Raol Moat incidents. It'll only be the Armed Response boys being trained, too, so its not as if the streets are about to fill with trigger happy coppers.

    I think its worth bearing in mind that the last government would probably be taking this opportunity to insist that a national ID card scheme was necessary to prevent a mumbai style attack, so at least this additional training seems proportionate.

    Essentially, since any terrorist group is unlikely to arm themselves via the local gunshop, even if it is stacked with section 5 weapons (some of them are) control of legal guns is irrelevant (as it usually is when they add to it ). The only thing that ever worries me about the police being trained by the military are the historical precedents of what can happen to states with heavy civilian gun controls and paramilitary police forces.

  5. #5
    Veteran neutron619's Avatar
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    Re: Mumbai type attack

    Careful lads. If you make a lot of noise about how 'gun control isn't working', d'you think that will eventually make the pursuit of our interests easier, or more difficult?
    Oh - I think we've got it reasonably right here in the UK, don't get me wrong. My point was more directed towards the general inability of our political classes to view anything with an objective eye - they've always got one ear directed towards the visceral screaming mob who demand (and often get) the ineffectual penalisation of legitimate shooters whilst ignoring the illegal importation of thousands of weapons designed only for military purposes etc...

    I see no real reason why people should need automatic rifles and feel not a small degree of comfort knowing they're illegal. Handguns I guess you could argue both ways, but since the UK doesn't recognise the self-defence argument, it seems acceptable to me that they're banned. As someone who's gone through the SGC application process in the last month, I'd say that gun control is working in this country and is, overall, a stringent but justifiable and fair process which I've no desire to see changed in either direction.

    Adam.
    Freedom is having the right to offend and be offended; politeness is temporarily eschewing that right in respect of others; maturity is understanding the compromise and applying it.

  6. #6
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    Re: Mumbai type attack

    Saying we wont be involved in a terrorist attack because fully automatic guns are banned is ridiculous, guns like that are banned in ireland yet the IRA have access to AR-15s and in one instance a bloody flame thrower.
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  7. #7
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    Re: Mumbai type attack

    If criminals will arm themselves anyway why would you support the disarming of the law abiding? Nobody should need a reason or permission to own an assault rifle or a handgun. Self defense is a fundamental human right. Why do your police need guns but your citizens don't? Why would they need them if gun control is working? You who support these rediculous laws are part of a much broader problem of infringement of basic human rights and liberties of all kinds in your country. I thought we had it bad but I've never been more proud of my citizenship then I have since I've been involved with this forum. I just can't wrap my mind around millions of people supporting such oppressive policies like you have in your country. It frustrates me to no end.

  8. #8
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    Re: Mumbai type attack

    Sorry Azarian,it wasn't meant to be a serious statement....hence the 'wink' icon.

    How do you think I feel Killatron....I live here!

  9. #9
    Veteran neutron619's Avatar
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    Re: Mumbai type attack

    I just can't wrap my mind around millions of people supporting such oppressive policies like you have in your country. It frustrates me to no end.
    Many of us I'm sure feel very strongly that our freedom to own firearms shouldn't be proscribed in the way that it is: certainly from an ideological point of view I will decry any imposition upon my freedom to act in whatever manner I please and face the consequences.

    Unfortunately, I am also in possession of that great quality of a true Englishman - pragmatism. This, though it does somewhat nullify the useful aggression and clear correctness of such an ideological view point, also allows me to walk down the path from my house, see my neighbour in his garden and ask myself two questions:

    Firstly, how would I feel if this man whom I do not necessarily know or trust kept an assault rifle - whose purpose is purely that of killing human beings, and which when loaded, will easily put a bullet through the walls of my home - within range of my family and children?

    Secondly, how would my neighbour feel if he knew that I - a man he does not necessarily know or trust - kept an assault rifle, and of what greater magnitude might his reaction be to any minor disagreement which might pass between us? Furthermore, what "precautions" might he take, should such a disagreement occur?

    I recognise the argument of freedom and grant it the primacy due to it, but it cannot be the only factor under consideration. Aggravating one's fellow citizens cannot be helpful where firearms are concerned, and I particularly refuse to believe that given the standards and discipline involved in hunting and stalking today, that an assault rifle is a necessary tool for such a task.

    I would rather interpret the possession of an assault rifle (even for self-defence) as denoting an intent or preparedness to kill human beings, which is an attitude that impinges on others' freedom and damages society as a whole: human beings living in fear are not free, as many societies (including our own) can demonstrate.

    My own libertarian principles demand that I take responsibility for my actions where they have a negative bearing on others and for this reason, I cannot support the ownership of firearms that have no alternate, legitimate purpose. A shotgun or a bolt action rifle may be used for hunting or for sport - an assault rifle has no place in such pursuits.

    The above - written on the fly - appears to be what I think about it.

    Adam.
    Freedom is having the right to offend and be offended; politeness is temporarily eschewing that right in respect of others; maturity is understanding the compromise and applying it.

  10. #10
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    Re: Mumbai type attack

    From what I read, the police role in this kind of terrorist attack is to be 'containment'. Apparently the SAS are to be barracked near likely targets so that they can respond quickly. Sounds good to me, and almost a tacit admission that it will need properly trained people to deal with terrorists effectively.

    And it seems that the police are to be armed with new types of weapon (don't know any details and it does worry me) so I'm assuming that the training role that the SAS will provide will be connected to the new types of weapons to be issued to plod.

    Obviously, the police will have a vital role to play if there is a terrorist attack, but I'm not sure whether the SAS are the right ones to train them in traffic control...
    "God is not on the side of the big battalions, but on the side of those who shoot best" - Voltaire

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